Framework is looking for Linux Community Ambassadors! We are looking for active members of the Linux community who frequently visit Linux and open-source events throughout the year to help us connect with the larger Linux community. Our volunteer ambassadors will attend local Linux and open-source events, meet with other Framework laptop users and potential community members, answer questions, gather feedback, and showcase Framework laptops and parts to those interested. Ambassadors will be in...
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if paying them meaningfully lowered their pool of applicants. I would be very surprised if it didn’t lower the quality of the feedback.
Being an “employee”, regardless of amount paid or frequency of interaction, is something that would cause issues with some people’s real jobs, especially in tech fields, and especially if they’re people who want to encourage their employers to buy Framework in the future.
It also changes the nature of the relationship with Framework, how they interact with the community, and the feedback they’re willing to pass on.
Then clean my house in an unpaid role. Brainwashing people to accept unpaid jobs for for-profit companies are unpaid workers, no matter if you make up excuses for that or not.
I clean up local parks for free, but if the city tried to pay me for it, I’d probably stop doing it. I don’t want to do it as a job, but I sometimes get in the mood to do it for free.
If I’m in the mood to clean up your house, I might just do it. But there can be no expectations on how or when I do it, and if I throw out that thing you really like, well maybe you shouldn’t have given me the keys.
The important thing is that there are no expectations. As soon as there are expectations, it becomes a job and I should be compensated for it. But if I can come and go as I please, say and do what I please, and there are no expectations on either end, I shouldn’t be paid.
Sort of? There’s signage asking people to clean up the parks, and there are official volunteer projects (unpaid) to do park cleanups. I’m acting on my own on my own time.
For something more directly relevant, my city has an official “fiber ambassador” program for the upcoming muni fiber rollout, and they are actively seeking unpaid “fiber champions” to post signs and tell friends about it. I didn’t do that (don’t want an obligation), but I do hype it up with neighbors and whatnot because I’m excited about it. The fiber program won’t be free, but it should be very competitive with existing infra (we have a local fiber-backed ethernet ISP, cable, dsl, and fixed wireless). If the city approached me and tried to pay me for that, I’d turn them down and probably champion it less because I don’t want the city to bother me.
And the situation in the article isn’t even like that “fiber champion” program, it’s just an invitation to meet the team. There’s no on-going obligation, just an invitation for a special event for people with an outsized influence on the community. It’s more of a “thank you” than an agreement to keep doing it.
What I’m describing is volunteer labor. As long as there’s no obligations, I’m free to do it or not, at my leisure.
If you want to put up a sign, go for it. Maybe I live near you (doubt it), or maybe there’s another busybody that likes to organize stuff. You might get robbed, or you might get some free labor, you never know! But an invitation is a prerequisite. I have helped people clean up stuff because they asked nicely, and I would do so again if more people asked. It turns out, I like helping people, and I don’t really care if they’re making a profit or not (I’ve cleaned up for-profit businesses as well, because I like the service they offer).
It’s the same general idea as those “free small libraries” people put out. They put in some amount of effort to keep it orderly, and invite community members to do the same. Sometimes it works out and people exchange books and keep the “library” orderly, and other times people take advantage and steal the books to resell online or something. Which one happens depends on your local community.
If you pay someone, you’ll probably get the results you want. If you don’t, well, it depends on who chooses to do the work, if any.
Exactly. If I really liked Framework laptops and Framework was forced to pay me, I’d refuse and probably stop posting about them. Getting paid for something makes it a job, and a job has expectations. I do hobbies because there’s no expectations, so I can be as consistent or as inconsistent as I want.
For example, I absolutely love Pine64 products, but I would hate Lukasz Erecinski’s job (their official “community manager”) because it takes the fun thing and makes it work, complete with expectations and whatnot. I think someone should get paid for that job, but it shouldn’t be an expectation for prominent members of the community to transition to paid positions.
That said, I wouldn’t say no to some merch as a “thank you,” but I’m not interested in merch as an expectation of future work. Maybe give me new products early to test, but not with the expectation that I’ll post a review or something (I probably will, but again, I don’t want it to be a job).
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if paying them meaningfully lowered their pool of applicants. I would be very surprised if it didn’t lower the quality of the feedback.
Being an “employee”, regardless of amount paid or frequency of interaction, is something that would cause issues with some people’s real jobs, especially in tech fields, and especially if they’re people who want to encourage their employers to buy Framework in the future.
It also changes the nature of the relationship with Framework, how they interact with the community, and the feedback they’re willing to pass on.
So does going on business trips for other companies, paid or unpaid.
Going to an event is a business trip if and only if you get paid for it. People go to conventions all the time.
The people I’m talking about would absolutely be disqualified from a paid position and have absolutely no issue with an unpaid role.
Then clean my house in an unpaid role. Brainwashing people to accept unpaid jobs for for-profit companies are unpaid workers, no matter if you make up excuses for that or not.
I clean up local parks for free, but if the city tried to pay me for it, I’d probably stop doing it. I don’t want to do it as a job, but I sometimes get in the mood to do it for free.
If I’m in the mood to clean up your house, I might just do it. But there can be no expectations on how or when I do it, and if I throw out that thing you really like, well maybe you shouldn’t have given me the keys.
The important thing is that there are no expectations. As soon as there are expectations, it becomes a job and I should be compensated for it. But if I can come and go as I please, say and do what I please, and there are no expectations on either end, I shouldn’t be paid.
Cool, did the city put up an ad asking people to apply for that unpaid job? If not, it’s not the same.
Sort of? There’s signage asking people to clean up the parks, and there are official volunteer projects (unpaid) to do park cleanups. I’m acting on my own on my own time.
For something more directly relevant, my city has an official “fiber ambassador” program for the upcoming muni fiber rollout, and they are actively seeking unpaid “fiber champions” to post signs and tell friends about it. I didn’t do that (don’t want an obligation), but I do hype it up with neighbors and whatnot because I’m excited about it. The fiber program won’t be free, but it should be very competitive with existing infra (we have a local fiber-backed ethernet ISP, cable, dsl, and fixed wireless). If the city approached me and tried to pay me for that, I’d turn them down and probably champion it less because I don’t want the city to bother me.
And the situation in the article isn’t even like that “fiber champion” program, it’s just an invitation to meet the team. There’s no on-going obligation, just an invitation for a special event for people with an outsized influence on the community. It’s more of a “thank you” than an agreement to keep doing it.
Cool, where can I put up a sign so you come clean my home for free? How about some renovations where you even buy the utilities yourself?
What you’re describing is unpaid labor.
What I’m describing is volunteer labor. As long as there’s no obligations, I’m free to do it or not, at my leisure.
If you want to put up a sign, go for it. Maybe I live near you (doubt it), or maybe there’s another busybody that likes to organize stuff. You might get robbed, or you might get some free labor, you never know! But an invitation is a prerequisite. I have helped people clean up stuff because they asked nicely, and I would do so again if more people asked. It turns out, I like helping people, and I don’t really care if they’re making a profit or not (I’ve cleaned up for-profit businesses as well, because I like the service they offer).
It’s the same general idea as those “free small libraries” people put out. They put in some amount of effort to keep it orderly, and invite community members to do the same. Sometimes it works out and people exchange books and keep the “library” orderly, and other times people take advantage and steal the books to resell online or something. Which one happens depends on your local community.
If you pay someone, you’ll probably get the results you want. If you don’t, well, it depends on who chooses to do the work, if any.
It’s not a fucking job, doesn’t resemble a fucking job, and if it was a job, most people couldn’t do it.
It’s an acknowledgment of members of the community to open a line of communication.
Oh jeez, I hit a nerve.
removed by mod
Exactly. If I really liked Framework laptops and Framework was forced to pay me, I’d refuse and probably stop posting about them. Getting paid for something makes it a job, and a job has expectations. I do hobbies because there’s no expectations, so I can be as consistent or as inconsistent as I want.
For example, I absolutely love Pine64 products, but I would hate Lukasz Erecinski’s job (their official “community manager”) because it takes the fun thing and makes it work, complete with expectations and whatnot. I think someone should get paid for that job, but it shouldn’t be an expectation for prominent members of the community to transition to paid positions.
That said, I wouldn’t say no to some merch as a “thank you,” but I’m not interested in merch as an expectation of future work. Maybe give me new products early to test, but not with the expectation that I’ll post a review or something (I probably will, but again, I don’t want it to be a job).