As new users downloaded the app, Bluesky jumped to becoming the app to No. 1 in Brazil over the weekend, ahead of Meta's X competitor, Instagram Threads.
I’ve been on Mastodon for over a year and the content simply isn’t there. Several of the people that I follow on Twitter have tried moving or duplicating to Mastodon. They’ve had a fraction of the visibility and engagement from commenters that they would get on Twitter. Invariably after a few months they have essentially given up on it as a primary medium. For me the discoverability is essentially non-existent, which I don’t think is helped by the idea of it being based around instance-local communities, which have no meaning when you’re looking at something like Twitter.
mastodon had their chance during the first exodus but they refused to listen to what twitter users wanted and shot down things like lists, quote tweets, and privacy controls.
You can not have one without the other. Influencers look for audiences. If the community has no influencer, it means that the audience is irrelevant or inexistent.
Not a comeback. My point is that no one cares about this space at all. We had for the past two years everything in our favor to dismantle corporate-controlled social media, but the people that are here have ridiculously small ambitions and seem to keep the Fediverse completely irrelevant.
How else can I put it? Imagine that you live in corner of the woods of Bumfuck Alabama and you say, “I’m so glad we don’t have McDonalds around here”, like it was some reason to be proud. It’s not, it just means that you live in a place so desolate that not even McDonalds thinks it’s worth it to open a shop there.
You’re using words like ‘ambition’ and ‘irrelevant’ like the Fediverse is some sort of corporate entity. It’s not - that’s a point very much in its favour in the opinion of quite a lot of people on it. Contrary to your opinion that no one cares, lots do. What some of us don’t care about is catering to a set of people who are paid to express opinions and who, it seems to me, over a period of time end up becoming Andrew Tate or Russel Brand.
There’s no McDonalds in the town I currently live in, which is 20 minutes away from one of the largest cities in the country. It might come as a massive shock to you but I - and I think the majority of people - can survive just fine without a Mickey D’s. Not having one doesn’t make a place desolate, it makes it healthier. And if someone really wants a Big Mac, they can go and get one from elsewhere.
Do you see what I’m saying? This isn’t the same place as that - it’s quite nice to have a place online that still isn’t. And for those that do want that, they can still spend time there if they chose to.
people (…) can survive just fine without a Mickey D’s. Not having one doesn’t make a place desolate, it makes it healthier.
That’s faulty logic. The presence or absence of a fast-food chain does not indicate that people eat better or worse than a place without. If you live in the US (and maybe the UK) I can bet a $100 with you right now that the average person in your town is heavier and more prone to metabolic diseases than the average person where I live (Berlin, Germany). Even if I am surrounded by probably a dozen Döner shops from my building, I am not forced to eat there. On the other hand, on average we eat less processed food, the restaurants are not serving those ridiculous oversized meals, the European lifestyle requires more physical activity, etc.
Likewise to the social networks. You are just saying “I don’t want Andrew Tate”. A big network is not just made up of assholes. The presence of some assholes does not imply that the average user is an asshole, and it also does not mean that you need to deal with them. But a small social network does unfortunately implies that there will be less of the good people.
Instead of saying who you don’t want, have you actually tried reaching out to the people that you do want to see here? Can you honestly say that you can find a diverse range of people that talk or work with things that are of your interests? Because I surely can not, and I am not one to have an extremely long list of interests and hobbies…
And for those that do want that, they can still spend time there if they chose to.
No, that’s absolutely the problem. I don’t want to go to Reddit, because of Reddit management. My problem with Reddit is not the “average redditor”, or “power-tripping moderators of popular subs” because I never went to Reddit to talk with the “average redditor” and I don’t care about “popular subs”.
Personally, even the API changes wouldn’t affect me. I used old.reddit to browse on desktop and I was never a big user on mobile. But the reason that I decided to leave was because Reddit decided to complete turn against its users to pursue relentless growth.
By “going to Reddit when I want”, I am still enabling Reddit and I am complacent with the status quo. I can only solve “my” problem by having people out of Reddit and into an open alternative that is more resistant to enshittification.
I think we could and should work to make the Fediverse an universal alternative. If not make it something that appeals equally to everyone, but to have a real diverse set of people and users. My litmus test is simple: my wife is still on Facebook because of different groups: parenting groups, events around town, some arts and crafts showcases… If I ask my wife her to take a look at Lemmy, will she find something that interests her?
So far, the answer is no. The range of interests around here is very small: sophomoric discussion of US politics, outrage-bait pieces whenever Musk/Zuckerberg/Bezos does something stupid, a handful of otakus, a somewhat-larger-but-still-small group of Linux nerds… that’s about it. Everything else is represented by at most one or two people who had a sizeable community on reddit, but failed to bring them over.
My experience has been better. User engagement is much higher per follower and the discussions don’t devolve. They’re much more useful and/or interesting. KPIs don’t measure everything.
„The content“ is there. Its just the addiction inducing, never ending dopamine that doesnt flow as freely which is great.
If you follow the topics that are most prevalent on the fedi (eg freedom, activism, technology, diversity) you will not run out unless you scroll for many hours a day, which is suggests you find yourself a hobby.
Also, the self fulfilling prophecy of „the fediverse is too small, I go to big platform“ will keep the fediverse small.
I feel this and some of the other comments in this thread are missing the point. It’s not about me and my followers. It’s about the news sources and topics that I search for or follow. They simply haven’t moved to Mastodon and where notable individuals that I follow have tried, it simply hasn’t worked out due to lack of interest. I’m not interested in the fediverse as a topic in itself, I’m interested in the topics and events I want to follow. Something happens and I can find and read and watch clips about it on Twitter. Not so Mastodon.
Bluesky is probably going to capture more of that than Mastodon. But threads is similarly struggling to develop it as well and they have very low barrier for new signups for anyone with a Facebook or Instagram account.
If lucifer was the only one having ice cream and you wanted ice cream, you would have to either go to lucifer or make your own (or ask someone to do it for you).
This is what the fediverse is about. Regaining control of our media. Your point that it is in any way too lacking to join or invest time into is self defeating as you and many others are needed to get it to that point.
So I‘m saying either accept that your work is needed to get any non billionaire owned/non corporate platform to work or stop pretending you care about your data.
If there aren’t people building this alternative, in their free time, for free, then it won’t exist. Fair enough. Much credit to them.
But it looks like @SquiffSquiff@lemmy.world is just an ordinary user with a busy life who wants to consume content in a way that better respects their privacy and autonomy. That is also a fair demand. Not everyone needs to be a producer.
Boring, boring, boring, boring. This is all “meta-converaation”, like this exact thread.
Where are the musicians, the woodworkers, the DIYers, the athletes, the architects, the photographers, the wannabe chefs, the contrarian educators who do not toe the line of Academia?
Hard disagree. It’s true that the tech conversation has shifted away from Twitter post-Musk, but to claim that Mastodon nowadays Mastodon is better than ever was is just wishful thinking.
Totally agree. But i don’t know if there is any hope, so many fedi people seem to not want any normies (people not working with computers i guess) entering.
Maybe, just maybe, if your followers aren’t willing to give up something vile because it’s giving them a dopamine hit, they’re not adding as much value to your life as you think.
There is absolutely nothing “vile” about quote tweets. When used properly, it is used to enrich a discussion. It’s not just because some idiot minority abuses a feature that it should be removed entirely. If well meaning people look at two different systems, and one of them is arbitrarily gutted of useful functionality, guess which one they will choose?
Sure, at the surface level of tweeting back and forth, there is nothing vile. But the very act of using the platform funds an agent of chaos that is doing very real harm, and to ignore that because it is inconvenient is at the most charitable interpretation a selfish and callous act. There are other means of discourse, and those with input that is valuable will follow you.
I’ve been on Mastodon for over a year and the content simply isn’t there. Several of the people that I follow on Twitter have tried moving or duplicating to Mastodon. They’ve had a fraction of the visibility and engagement from commenters that they would get on Twitter. Invariably after a few months they have essentially given up on it as a primary medium. For me the discoverability is essentially non-existent, which I don’t think is helped by the idea of it being based around instance-local communities, which have no meaning when you’re looking at something like Twitter.
mastodon had their chance during the first exodus but they refused to listen to what twitter users wanted and shot down things like lists, quote tweets, and privacy controls.
mastodon is very gatekeeper-y
And they sold out the people, who tried to help by posting, to Meta.
That’s not at all the problem here, no
Maybe they should stop caring about visibility and engagement and concentrate on participating in, building and y’know enjoying a community?
That can be difficult if your livelihood depends on it. Artists for example.
You can not have one without the other. Influencers look for audiences. If the community has no influencer, it means that the audience is irrelevant or inexistent.
I genuinely don’t care about influencers. Like, at all.
It’s okay, they don’t care about you either…
Strangely comforting for something I’m sure you thought was a snappy comeback,
Not a comeback. My point is that no one cares about this space at all. We had for the past two years everything in our favor to dismantle corporate-controlled social media, but the people that are here have ridiculously small ambitions and seem to keep the Fediverse completely irrelevant.
How else can I put it? Imagine that you live in corner of the woods of Bumfuck Alabama and you say, “I’m so glad we don’t have McDonalds around here”, like it was some reason to be proud. It’s not, it just means that you live in a place so desolate that not even McDonalds thinks it’s worth it to open a shop there.
You’re using words like ‘ambition’ and ‘irrelevant’ like the Fediverse is some sort of corporate entity. It’s not - that’s a point very much in its favour in the opinion of quite a lot of people on it. Contrary to your opinion that no one cares, lots do. What some of us don’t care about is catering to a set of people who are paid to express opinions and who, it seems to me, over a period of time end up becoming Andrew Tate or Russel Brand.
There’s no McDonalds in the town I currently live in, which is 20 minutes away from one of the largest cities in the country. It might come as a massive shock to you but I - and I think the majority of people - can survive just fine without a Mickey D’s. Not having one doesn’t make a place desolate, it makes it healthier. And if someone really wants a Big Mac, they can go and get one from elsewhere.
Do you see what I’m saying? This isn’t the same place as that - it’s quite nice to have a place online that still isn’t. And for those that do want that, they can still spend time there if they chose to.
That’s faulty logic. The presence or absence of a fast-food chain does not indicate that people eat better or worse than a place without. If you live in the US (and maybe the UK) I can bet a $100 with you right now that the average person in your town is heavier and more prone to metabolic diseases than the average person where I live (Berlin, Germany). Even if I am surrounded by probably a dozen Döner shops from my building, I am not forced to eat there. On the other hand, on average we eat less processed food, the restaurants are not serving those ridiculous oversized meals, the European lifestyle requires more physical activity, etc.
Likewise to the social networks. You are just saying “I don’t want Andrew Tate”. A big network is not just made up of assholes. The presence of some assholes does not imply that the average user is an asshole, and it also does not mean that you need to deal with them. But a small social network does unfortunately implies that there will be less of the good people.
Instead of saying who you don’t want, have you actually tried reaching out to the people that you do want to see here? Can you honestly say that you can find a diverse range of people that talk or work with things that are of your interests? Because I surely can not, and I am not one to have an extremely long list of interests and hobbies…
No, that’s absolutely the problem. I don’t want to go to Reddit, because of Reddit management. My problem with Reddit is not the “average redditor”, or “power-tripping moderators of popular subs” because I never went to Reddit to talk with the “average redditor” and I don’t care about “popular subs”.
Personally, even the API changes wouldn’t affect me. I used old.reddit to browse on desktop and I was never a big user on mobile. But the reason that I decided to leave was because Reddit decided to complete turn against its users to pursue relentless growth.
By “going to Reddit when I want”, I am still enabling Reddit and I am complacent with the status quo. I can only solve “my” problem by having people out of Reddit and into an open alternative that is more resistant to enshittification.
This was genuinely funny. Thanks.
To each its own, I like it here.
What would you suppose it is ambition, to feed off influencers? What good would that bring to the platform?
If the people who used it would benefit at least. But then again, that’s cryptocurrency culture, so I don’t know if both complete each other.
I think we could and should work to make the Fediverse an universal alternative. If not make it something that appeals equally to everyone, but to have a real diverse set of people and users. My litmus test is simple: my wife is still on Facebook because of different groups: parenting groups, events around town, some arts and crafts showcases… If I ask my wife her to take a look at Lemmy, will she find something that interests her?
So far, the answer is no. The range of interests around here is very small: sophomoric discussion of US politics, outrage-bait pieces whenever Musk/Zuckerberg/Bezos does something stupid, a handful of otakus, a somewhat-larger-but-still-small group of Linux nerds… that’s about it. Everything else is represented by at most one or two people who had a sizeable community on reddit, but failed to bring them over.
Guess it’s not for you then. I’m having a blast. A lot of my friends are now in it and the last year or so have been great.
And more and more people seem to be moving.
My experience has been better. User engagement is much higher per follower and the discussions don’t devolve. They’re much more useful and/or interesting. KPIs don’t measure everything.
Many people are most interested in profit as their only KPI and mastodon puts up a lot of hurdles for those people.
„The content“ is there. Its just the addiction inducing, never ending dopamine that doesnt flow as freely which is great.
If you follow the topics that are most prevalent on the fedi (eg freedom, activism, technology, diversity) you will not run out unless you scroll for many hours a day, which is suggests you find yourself a hobby.
Also, the self fulfilling prophecy of „the fediverse is too small, I go to big platform“ will keep the fediverse small.
Be the change you want to see.
I feel this and some of the other comments in this thread are missing the point. It’s not about me and my followers. It’s about the news sources and topics that I search for or follow. They simply haven’t moved to Mastodon and where notable individuals that I follow have tried, it simply hasn’t worked out due to lack of interest. I’m not interested in the fediverse as a topic in itself, I’m interested in the topics and events I want to follow. Something happens and I can find and read and watch clips about it on Twitter. Not so Mastodon.
Bluesky is probably going to capture more of that than Mastodon. But threads is similarly struggling to develop it as well and they have very low barrier for new signups for anyone with a Facebook or Instagram account.
You are missing the point.
If lucifer was the only one having ice cream and you wanted ice cream, you would have to either go to lucifer or make your own (or ask someone to do it for you).
This is what the fediverse is about. Regaining control of our media. Your point that it is in any way too lacking to join or invest time into is self defeating as you and many others are needed to get it to that point.
So I‘m saying either accept that your work is needed to get any non billionaire owned/non corporate platform to work or stop pretending you care about your data.
You’re both right.
If there aren’t people building this alternative, in their free time, for free, then it won’t exist. Fair enough. Much credit to them.
But it looks like @SquiffSquiff@lemmy.world is just an ordinary user with a busy life who wants to consume content in a way that better respects their privacy and autonomy. That is also a fair demand. Not everyone needs to be a producer.
Boring, boring, boring, boring. This is all “meta-converaation”, like this exact thread.
Where are the musicians, the woodworkers, the DIYers, the athletes, the architects, the photographers, the wannabe chefs, the contrarian educators who do not toe the line of Academia?
!newcommunities@lemmy.world for other communities suggestions
Come on, you know that I’m talking about the people…
People post to the communities.
With this comment I was bringing them visibility, which is usually an issue.
On the side I keep promoting Lemmy on /r/Redditalternatives
Once we’ll get more people, and they’ll know where to find content, we’ll be able to solve that issue
I don’t want to make Mastodon propaganda, but Mastodon talks around technology are much better than Twitter ever was.
Hard disagree. It’s true that the tech conversation has shifted away from Twitter post-Musk, but to claim that Mastodon nowadays Mastodon is better than ever was is just wishful thinking.
Totally agree. But i don’t know if there is any hope, so many fedi people seem to not want any normies (people not working with computers i guess) entering.
Maybe, just maybe, if your followers aren’t willing to give up something vile because it’s giving them a dopamine hit, they’re not adding as much value to your life as you think.
There is absolutely nothing “vile” about quote tweets. When used properly, it is used to enrich a discussion. It’s not just because some idiot minority abuses a feature that it should be removed entirely. If well meaning people look at two different systems, and one of them is arbitrarily gutted of useful functionality, guess which one they will choose?
Sure, at the surface level of tweeting back and forth, there is nothing vile. But the very act of using the platform funds an agent of chaos that is doing very real harm, and to ignore that because it is inconvenient is at the most charitable interpretation a selfish and callous act. There are other means of discourse, and those with input that is valuable will follow you.
I am saying “quote tweets” as a reference to the functionality, not the usage of Twitter itself.
Mastodon refuses to implement the functionality, but it is supported on others: Soapbox, Akkoma…