For all your boycotting needs. I’m sure there’s some mods caught in lemmy.ml’s top 10 that are perfectly upstanding and reasonable people, my condolences for the cross-fire.

  1. !memes@lemmy.world and !memes@sopuli.xyz. Or of course communities that rule.
  2. !asklemmy@lemmy.world
  3. !linux@programming.dev. Quite small, plenty of more specific ones available. Also linux is inescapable on lemmy anyway :)
  4. !programmer_humor@programming.dev
  5. !world@lemmy.world
  6. !privacy@lemmy.world and maybe !privacyguides@lemmy.one, lemmy.one itself seems to be up in the air. !fedigrow@lemm.ee says !privacy@lemmy.ca. They really seem to be hiding even from another, those tinfoil hats :)
  7. !technology@lemmy.world
  8. Seems like !comicstrips@lemmy.world and !comicbooks@lemmy.world, various smaller comic-specifc communities as well as !eurographicnovels@lemm.ee
  9. !opensource@programming.dev
  10. !fuckcars@lemmy.world

(Out of the loop? Here’s a thread on lemmy.ml mods and their questionable behaviour)

    • barsquid@lemmy.worldEnglish
      551·
      5 months ago

      I think it’s good to have regular outreach. I just subscribed to the linux community from this one.

      The other post also has me considering moving my account to a different instance. There were some compelling arguments against centralizing on lemmy.world. (I don’t strongly disagree with the moderation here but I do somewhat disagree with centralizing admin power like on reddit.)

      I wouldn’t mind seeing these regularly. But maybe it would be nice to have someone make specific accounts for that purpose so you can easily block them out of your feed.

  • AnyOldName3@lemmy.worldEnglish
    301·
    5 months ago

    OpenMW’s official Lemmy community has been on lemmy.ml since 2021, way before lemmy.world existed (and most other instances, too), and way before there was any inter-instance drama. It’s becoming increasingly likely that it’s not going to be a suitable long-term home, but we’d be much happier if we could migrate the existing community rather than start from scratch with a new one. Is there any way to do that yet?

    • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
      25·
      5 months ago

      IMO organizations should self-host their official communities. If you’re going to move, it ought to be to something like !openmw@lemmy.openmw.org.

      In addition to the obvious benefits of having admin control/being able to avoid moderation drama imposed by others, it also means you could have more than one community: maybe !openmw for general discussion, plus !modding, !development, etc.

    • barsoap@lemm.eeOPEnglish
      12·
      5 months ago

      but we’d be much happier if we could migrate the existing community rather than start from scratch with a new one. Is there any way to do that yet?

      Migrating content over should be doable by a sufficiently tech-savvy admin, subscribers, I don’t think so.

      • Aniki 🌱🌿@lemm.eeEnglish
        20·
        5 months ago

        Community migration is coming in future releases of Lemmy but right now it’s not possible.

        • Richard@lemmy.worldEnglish
          4·
          5 months ago

          Principally it is possible if you can iterate over all the posts and comments and inject them into the database of their new home.

          • Aniki 🌱🌿@lemm.eeEnglish
            6·
            5 months ago

            That wont work at all. Each subscriber needs to get the update which is not a feature of Lemmy at the moment. Simply injecting posts will only copy over content.

            • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              1·
              5 months ago

              I think the suggestion in whole was “do that specifically for the content, and for the users make a post on the old instance linking to the new, pin it and lock the community so the users have to migrate themselves, since dragging them with you is impossible currently.”

    • jelloeater - Ops Mgr@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6·
      5 months ago

      We love to be the home of smaller communities, but for sure, any larger ones should look into running on their own setup. If you need help, drop us a line!

  • jumjummy@lemmy.worldEnglish
    298·
    5 months ago

    The world news community on .ml is just Russian and Chinese propoganda.

      • hark@lemmy.worldEnglish
        710·
        5 months ago

        Clearly the American point of view is neutral, the default, and the truth, so it doesn’t count as propaganda.

        • DefederateLemmyMl@feddit.nlEnglish
          4·
          5 months ago

          It’s not even about which view is right or neutral. On .world posts and comments critical of the US aren’t mass censored like .ml does with posts critical of China, Russia or the former USSR.

          • hark@lemmy.worldEnglish
            22·
            5 months ago

            That’s true to some extent. I don’t agree with hard censorship like that, but there is also the risk of getting astroturfed and brigaded like reddit, which had a clear example as far back as 2013 where Eglin Air Force Base, FL showed up as “most addicted city”. The goal of censorship is to give your own opinions more space, so I’m not exactly upset if other instances are moderated in a different way when there are plenty of other instances moderated in a different way. The fediverse offers plenty of space.

  • Lvxferre@mander.xyzEnglish
    201·
    5 months ago

    The way that I see it, the issue with lemmy ml’s administration and moderation is not quite political in origin. It’s about transparency; and I think that this wall of text that I wrote about how lemmy dot ml handled ani.social shows it well, as the dispute in question was not political in nature. (I can abridge it at request.)

    With that out of the way, most of your suggestions boil down to “use lemmy.world instead”. I don’t have anything against LW’s administration, but I think that it’s foolish to concentrate people and activity there even further, it defeats the point of a federation. That instance is already 40% of the MAUs, and hosts the largest comms using Lemmy.

    • DefederateLemmyMl@feddit.nlEnglish
      6·
      5 months ago

      The way that I see it, the issue with lemmy ml’s administration and moderation is not quite political in origin. It’s about transparency

      Well it’s really both. The issue is the combination of a number of factors which on their own would be fairly easy to deal with, but put together they are very problematic:

      1. The admins are political extremists
      2. lemmy.ml has a very prominent position in the lemmyverse, because they were first and got a headstart
      3. The admins are actively using their position to heavily police discussion according to their extremist political views. The fact that they’re not being transparent about it is aggravating, but not the root problem.

      This prominent position of lemmy.ml is the fundamental difference with the hexbear or lemmygrad situation. Those instances can easily be contained at the user level: most people can just block and ignore them entirely because nothing interesting happens on those instances for non-extremists. Not so with lemmy.ml, which hosts a number of large bona-fide communities.

      So I think it’s necessary to make a concerted effort to reduce lemmy.ml’s prominence in the fediverse, so that political extremists can’t put their thumb on the scale to nudge discussion in a certain direction. Part of that effort is raising awareness about lemmy.ml’s nature, which is what this PSA does, but that likely won’t be enough due to network effect. It will take more to get people to move their communities to other instances. If other large instances, like lemmy.world, would block lemmy.ml that would provide a real stimulus for a large amount of people to move away from lemmy.ml.

      With that out of the way, most of your suggestions boil down to “use lemmy.world instead”. I don’t have anything against LW’s administration, but I think that it’s foolish to concentrate people and activity there even further

      I agree that spreading out more would be desirable, but on the other hand “just use lemmy.world instead of lemmy.ml” is a very simple and practical suggestion to move away from ml.

    • barsoap@lemm.eeOPEnglish
      82·
      5 months ago

      With that out of the way, most of your suggestions boil down to “use lemmy.world instead”.

      It’s where big replacement communities happen to be, that’s all there is to it. Avoiding centralisation is a good thing in general but “tired of .ml mods? Here’s alternatives” isn’t the right time to go for it I think. Maybe the admins can come up with a scheme to round-robin disable community creation or something, to spread things out. Also, community migration is in the pipeline software-wise that would help a lot.

    • GamingChairModel@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      5 months ago

      I think that it’s foolish to concentrate people and activity there even further, it defeats the point of a federation.

      It defeats some of the points of federation, but there are still a lot of reasons why federation is still worth doing even if there’s essentially one dominant provider. Not least of which is that sometimes the dominant provider does get displaced over time. We’ve seen it happen with email a few times, where the dominant provider loses market share to upstarts, one of whom becomes the new dominant provider in some specific use case (enterprise vs consumer, mobile vs desktop vs automation/scripting, differences by nation or language), and where the federation between those still allows the systems to communicate with each other.

      Applied to Lemmy/kbin/mbin and other forum-like social link aggregators, I could see LW being dominant in the English-speaking, American side of things, but with robust options outside of English language or communities physically located outside of North America. And we’ll all still be able to interact.

      • shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lolEnglish
        2818·
        5 months ago

        Criticizing China on lemmy.ml goes about as well as evangelizing crypto on awful.systems. Join an instance that shares your values or roll your own. Know your audience or get the hammer.

        It’s like a huge chunk of the population out here has never experienced a forum before.

        • OpenStars@discuss.onlineEnglish
          351·
          5 months ago

          It is far more than just that. Removing comments is one thing, mass-banning from many communities at once despite never even having commented in them at all is another, but the real issue is using database manipulation to delete the log entries as to why the comments were removed after the fact.

          Even if unintentional, which strains credulity, this is some spez-level stuff going on, edit: where we have the option to either take what a single person (who does not seem inclined to follow their own stated rules) offers, or else we can leave. Many are choosing the latter, and like the Rexodus, making the situation known to others as well in the process.

          “Criticizing China” was merely the spark that lit the match, with the situation offering proof of what apparently people have been suspecting for some time now.

          • Dempf@lemmy.zipEnglish
            7·
            5 months ago

            The sad part is that this situation was entirely predictable a year ago.

            The Lemmy devs (who also run lemmy.ml) made no secret of who they are and what they believe. Especially dessalines.

            I do think they have made a very good piece of software. And I think we’re better off here than on Reddit. At least it is more difficult for one asshole to ruin everything. We have tools to block people and instances, so it doesn’t matter as much even if they’re in charge.

            I worry that if lemmy.ml continues to be run the way that it is, then it will bleed over into the software side, and we would be forced to fork Lemmy. So far though, despite running lemmy.ml like assholes, the actual development seems fine – not too different from any other open source project (I only remember that one issue where dessalines completely failed to understand why a user would want to block an instance).

            The irony is that, despite creating a tool with what seems like very socialist principles (it gives users & communities a lot of power, and doesn’t centralize that power with one person), those principles are often lost on the devs in favor of authoritarianism. Hence the term: “tankie”.

            • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              91·
              5 months ago

              (I only remember that one issue where dessalines completely failed to understand why a user would want to block an instance).

              Oh he knows why, because he IS why. He wants to pretend he doesn’t because he knows people will use it to block the instances that force the politics he enjoys. Nobody is fucking trying to escape star trek lol, it’s him and his ilk and he knows it, and since their goal is evangelism (they have to save our souls with authoritarian dictatorships!) he doesn’t want the evangelism machine shut down.

              • OpenStars@discuss.onlineEnglish
                11·
                5 months ago

                Fascism is quite capable at achieving its goals - seeing as how it is not limited by any of that pesky “morality” that slows others down.

              • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                5·
                5 months ago

                You need to take a step back. You can’t see the forest for the trees. Our strength is in our diversity.

                Hexbear defederated from us as we were discussing whether to vote on defederating them, which was a foregone conclusion. Our users can’t walk into their communities, because they are scared that we might poke a hole in their bubble. Perhaps these boogeymen that you envision are less interested in taking over the world, and more interested in simply having their own space on the internet.

                In short, if a user on that instance were to accidentally walk into chapotraphouse (hexbear.net is also not defederated on that instance) and say something that would anger the trolls and get you brigaded (from their discord server), then that’s not the problem of the instance admin of sh.itjust.works to protect their users from such a mistake.

                It’s not nice to put words in someone else’s mouth. I will always protect my users against being brigaded. Hence why we were about to defederate hexbear before they beat us to the punch. But we aren’t being brigaded by lemmy.ml.

                You actually believe Dessalines is taking money from the Chinese government? Come on dude, that’s absurd. Occam’s razor: he just doesn’t like when people say shit he doesn’t agree with, and petulantly bans them. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s just an internet moderation saga that has played out a million times before.

              • Dempf@lemmy.zipEnglish
                4·
                5 months ago

                Just going to address your first paragraph: I sincerely doubt that the devs are receiving money from a fascist government. I simply don’t think Lemmy is big enough yet to be on the radar of e.g., the Chinese government. Yes, maybe there are some Wumaos on here. My understanding is they get better training and autonomy these days, so it’s certainly possible. But most of the comments look more homegrown. I just doubt the Chinese government (or any similar government) would care to the point of trying to pay off devs, and it’s not their MO anyways.

              • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.eeEnglish
                3·
                5 months ago

                With the ability to block hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml, I got cocky and started recommending Lemmy to people that I know irl, however upon thinking it over in greater depth, I am afraid to do that anymore.

                I don’t even admit to anyone that I use Lemmy, too much political extremism and propaganda.

                Within a couple weeks of signing up for Lemmy I was told I’d “get the wall”, and had to abandon an account because Lemmy.ml users followed me around and downvoted everything I posted (mostly funny memes).

                • OpenStars@discuss.onlineEnglish
                  42·
                  5 months ago

                  But after I blocked hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml, I started to forget that all of that was even there, though I internally made a kind of automatic mental block for Lemmy.ml too (like WHAT!? oh nvm it’s from them…). I shouldn’t forget though, that that is what a new user would see… thus it would be quite unfriendly for me to bring fresh meat to the fascist audience for their amusement.

                  Listening to instance admins, I just don’t know why they refuse to see those campaigns of brigading as you described happened to you (can you prove it btw, like if the account still exists, and you find a way to view downvotes - does Mbin let you? I tried but maybe it needs a login to do that and it appears greyed out to me without one…), and they say things like “they don’t affect our users” (bullshit, you just perfectly described a situation that I suspect happens all the time where it does), and basically act like bullying and intimidation is not a thing that exists in the world. Like, if you ever say anything to anger someone on lemmy.ml, then that’s your fault and you deserve whatever comes your way after that!?

                  Tbf, there are instances - e.g. reddthat.com - that disable downvotes entirely. But I don’t want to simply become insensitive to everyone else’s disapproval around me - rather I want the system to work properly so that I am only getting disapproval from people who I either respect or at least are neutral, i.e. not fascists who abuse the system bc they are allowed to by inattentive admins.

                  If there was an instance somewhere that had defederated from the Big 3 Axis powers - hexbear.net, lemmygrad.ml, and lemmy.ml - I would likely join it, and promote it, and recommend Lemmy to people irl again. Otherwise, I will either leave the Fediverse if it gets too bad, or far more likely simply block lemmy.ml but then only enjoy the Fediverse privately rather than as something I am allowed to share bc of how poor and off-putting the initial user experience is.:-(

                  It is extremely sad how heavily this aspect hinders our continued growth - even if Reddit does something annoying like finally kills off old-reddit for good this time, are people really going to want to come here, so that instead of being exposed to the right-wing propaganda over there, they can be exposed to the fascism-disguised-as-leftism over here? Fascists are controlling everything, everywhere!?!? But we were supposed to be different, here. At least that’s what we told ourselves.

        • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          163·
          5 months ago

          Agreed. But to be fair, there’s never been a forum like the fediverse before. People are still learning how to navigate this complex, multifaceted space. It’s not just one audience, it’s many different ones.

    • muse@fedia.io
      241·
      5 months ago

      Lemmy.ml is developed and admined by tankies. Recent allegations are that someone is censoring accounts that have previously made posts critical of China by moderating them across various magazines

      • OpenStars@discuss.onlineEnglish
        131·
        5 months ago

        I mentioned elsewhere but here’s a copy and paste:

        It is far more than just that. Removing comments is one thing, mass-banning from many communities at once despite never even having commented in them at all is another, but the real issue is using database manipulation to delete the log entries as to why the comments were removed after the fact.

        Even if unintentional, which strains credulity, this is some spez-level stuff going on, where we have the option to either take what a single person (who does not seem inclined to follow their own stated rules) offers, or else we can leave. Many are choosing the latter, and like the Rexodus, making the situation known to others as well in the process.

        “Criticizing China” was merely the spark that lit the match, with the situation offering proof of what apparently people have been suspecting for some time now.

  • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    10·
    5 months ago
    1. JOIN US! Comicbooks is slow, I’d like it to grow so I can discuss less popular creator owned comics, at the moment it’s mostly some news posts, my list posts, some super hero discussion, and some dude who thinks internet comic strips are “comic books” (but nobody has corrected them because they seem nice enough lol).
    • Blaze@reddthat.comEnglish
      4·
      5 months ago

      some dude who thinks internet comic strips are “comic books

      Is that me? Ha ha

      • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        5·
        5 months ago

        Naw lol the one you posted is at least a nightwing/starfire thing, it’s related. But you’re cool too!

        I meant whoever posted the one about the comet passing earth a little while back haha.

      • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        3·
        5 months ago

        Lol technically correct, the best kind of correct!

        Naw for real though I just think personally that stuff belongs in comicstrips or one of the more apt communities for it, and comicbooks is specifically for Comic Books proper (not just Marvel/DC but also Image, IDW, DSTLRY, Massive, etc, the more creator owned and independent side.) I think this because quite frankly “Comic Books proper” doesn’t really fit in those communities dedicated to strips, and I’d like a space for it specifically when I’m looking for that stuff specifically. My opinions on the matter are far from “the rules” though, it is certainly allowed to post them.

        This is also not to say I don’t like strips, I do very much and am in most of those communities as well! It really just boils down to organization for me lol, may be slightly OCD.

  • PolydoreSmith@lemmy.worldEnglish
    91·
    5 months ago

    So, I’ve been on lemmy.world since I joined last year and everyone’s saying it’s too big. Lemmy.ml is the next-largest so I’m conflicted. What do?

    • Echo Dot@feddit.ukEnglish
      11·
      5 months ago

      Join literally any other server.

      That’s the point of distributed networks they’re supposed to be distributed if 80% of the content is on two servers that’s not distributed. People should move off ml and world regardless of their politics simply because it’s not a good idea to have everything all in one place.

    • joel@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      7·
      5 months ago

      Join a smaller instance. You can still see posts on lemmy.world, and you might find a niche you’re interested in in the process

      • WanderingVentra@lemm.eeEnglish
        3·
        5 months ago

        Smaller instances are also less likely to get defederated by other instances, so unless your admins or mods are quick on the defederation, you get to see everything the fediverse has to offer. Not everyone likes that, of course, but it can be a good perk depending on the user and their admins and mods.

        I also really like the idea of interest based instances. I hope we see those grow bigger rather than everything being put on .World and .ml. I need to post and comment on instances like programming.dev or ttrpg.network more.

    • SorteKanin@feddit.dkEnglish
      3·
      5 months ago

      Join a server that fits your geographic location. That would lead to a better balance than what we have today.

    • AchtungDrempels@lemmy.worldEnglish
      31·
      5 months ago

      People say lots of stuff, i am happy on world. As long as we don’t only take part in local communities i don’t think there’s much of a problem really.

  • Mastengwe@lemm.eeEnglish
    168·
    5 months ago

    Love seeing this happen. That shithole needs to be defederated. The mod logs are FULL of butthurt mods banning people over and o Ver again for violating the Don’t Post Shit We Don’t Like rule, or… “Rule 1” to everyone else.