We have seen this game 100 times. Opt in for now and then turned on for everyone 6-12 months later. It’s just a temporary move to handle the bad PR.
You forgot the best part
Silently turned on via “security” update
It’s a security update because it adds new security vulnerabilities.
Same as it ever was
Or the other trick of constantly prompting “Turn on / Maybe Later” until people either accidentally accept or just give up to make nagging stop.
That guy at the club who won’t fuck off
registry switch that’ll mysteriously reset itself. we’ve had this shit with countless windows configurations at work that our IT guy has to battle with on the regular.
I’ve had so many people jump down my throat for listing some of the many obviously fucked things Microsoft did on my PC just over the life of Windows 10. (And not that it should matter, but I even paid for Pro).
I turned all their various advertising and spying “features” off through legitimate settings, group policies, whatever, and the list of things that reverted themselves over time was insane.
User: Goes through 15 step process to turn off unwanted “feature”.
Windows: I turned this on, in case it got turned off accidentally. I’ll do this every reboot.
And not that it should matter, but I even paid for Pro
It should matter though. If MS wants to give away Windows for free, then users should expect compromised privacy. But it’s not. They charge hundreds for it.
If Windows made a paid version that was private and secure, and that the user was in control of, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
If they were giving away Windows for free, their behavior would still be unforgivable.
There is no scenario where any operating system including spyware or ads can ever theoretically be acceptable behavior. Any person who contributes in any way to that happening belongs in a prison cell.
Well that’s the only way a “free” product is sustainable.
Linux is free qnd plenty sustainable.
If you can’t support providing something for free via a mechanism that isn’t pure and unadulterated evil, then don’t do it for free. “We have to be monsters to make money” is not a valid position.
Linux is free qnd plenty sustainable.
It also has a vast array of enormous compromises, which is why no one uses it.
Yeah dude, there’s nothing they can do to fix this. They have eroded the trust of their users for decades. It will take them decades to get it back, if they actually tried.
Also it took hackers days to find vulnerabilities. Which is a massive security concern.
Can anyone give me examples of times Windows has done this in the past? I mean, I feel like this is true, but I legit can’t think of anything that matches this.
In the last 6 months:
- One Drive reinstalled and turned back on on my personal & work computer multiple times.
- AI Co-pilot added to my machine and enabled “so you can start using it now!” with an obtrusive pinned shortcut on my start bar, to both of the same machines but at different time intervals. Uninstalling is virtually impossible and requires registry mods to 'remove" it. Not even a powers he’ll command can remove it.
I don’t want, or need, this add-on garbage.
Perfect examples, thank you 👌
Opt-in does not matter, if I message or email someone who has it on, my personal data has been collected without my knowledge or consent.
This shouldnt have been built in the first place, it’s irresponsible
This raises an excellent point not considered. This goes for all texts as well if the other person uses the “your phone” app. Discord, matrix, signal, telegram etc are all compromised by this existing on a system.
Will my browser’s “private mode” be respected or it is going to store every inappropriate thing I search?
Are password managers safe? How about bank security questions? How often are those actaully obfuscated. The last 4 digits of social security numbers are usually unobfuscated, which is also what a lot of intuitions (stupidly) use to verify your ID over the phone. What if I want to look at the PDF of my tax documents?
What if my HR manager has this enabled and starts viewing PDFs containing private information about employees, payroll data, finances and whatever else is sellable on the dark web.
How about govermnet data? Sure maybe the pentagon IT staff will completely block it, but what about local gov committee ABC that’s collecting voter information?
That type of data is valuable enough that it will be targeted regardless of what protection MS attempts. Based on the fact they didnt bother encytping the data from the start, my faith is low.
The implications of this are insane.
That’s true of any malware on your contact’s computer or an unsecure server, though. That is not specific or novel to this feature.
(I’m not saying I like this feature, or think it’s a good idea. I don’t, and it’s not)
So what you are saying is, is that it’s malware. I agree.
I maintain one baremetal Windows install that gets fairly regular use. It’s on a major OEM business class workstation with a legit Windows 10 pro license.
Recently, I had to wipe and reset and goddamn do they try and trick you into choosing all the worst spyware settings AND even if you successfully duck and weave past them, they’ll just cheat and enable them, or reinstall shit like co-pilot during an update.
They just made me sign into that shitty M365 app to install a legit subscription of Office, and on the next reboot, it converted the local user account into an online user account.
Make no mistake, Recall is going to be enabled by hook, or by crook, for the vast majority of Windows 11 users in due time. No matter how many times they disable it, or opt out.
Yup. We’re back to the old days where Microsoft didn’t give a damn and enabled things by default.
It’ll take less than a decade before they get sued, yet again. By then, the penalty will be <5% of what they’ve made, but the merry go round will circle back and start all over.
Why the hell wasn’t it opt-in from the beginning?
It’ll be opt-in, till it isn’t.
For the same reason it used an unprotected DB. Because they don’t give a shit about your privacy or security.
I like daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaata
– Microsoft
Too late Microsoft, I jumped into the Linux pool and the water is fine.
Exactly. Running fedora desktop and I am thinking why the move does.not do more poeple. The only Microsoft junk I am using is the corporation laptop and that I am sure wont get this function.
“we will change nothing but announce it like we did”
opt-in until next update when it will be enabled “magically”
Let me tell exactly what will happen.
- Step 1 - It’s opt-in. Everyone chill
- Step 2 - It’s opt-in but the opt-in button is advertised during startup
- Step 3 - “opting in in crucial for your safety and comfort” advertised everytime during startup
- Step 4 - it’s opt-out now but it can be turned off in settings
- Step 5 - it’s opt-out but the off button is hidden below 3 layers
- Step 6 - the opt-out button is gone but can be turned off with a registry edit
- Step 7 - sorry, it’s a core component of W11
We are currently at Step 1
This comment is taken from another lemmy post but I forgot the username. Apologies.
If you don’t opt in you will miss essential security updates and you will become a terrorist
I mean even if it is not mandatory but automatically enabled once, odds are %80 of the users won’t even bother turning it off so win for windows in any case
How about you promise to remove your build in spyware?
Musnt anger the shareholders
I don’t even care if it’s opt-in. I don’t want dormant malware on my PC either.
To be clear. I actually like Windows 11. I don’t care about the general telemetry, though I disabled the typing data crap. Most of the things in the last few months about ads in Windows, about blocking apps, etc have been overblown and aren’t actually big problems in isolation. Even this is a little overblown right now as it requires an NPU which the vast majority of systems don’t have. But, this is just so tone-deaf and an obviously terrible idea that it needs to be put down hard.
Yeah, they’re so focused on screwing me over that I’m worried eventually I’ll miss something.
Most of the things in the last few months about ads in Windows, about blocking apps, etc have been overblown and aren’t actually big problems in isolation.
Any telemetry sent without a very clearly informed opt in is malicious. Any ad in an OS is malicious. There is no valid justification for either.
as it requires an NPU which the vast majority of systems don’t have
Don’t have at the time. I agree with you but argument that it’s not an issue for many people right now will bite the majority eventually
I don’t want *dormant* malware on my PC either.
“Why not?”
–Micro$oft, probably
As a reminder this was the go-to play for Facebook when they were caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Default it off until nobody’s looking and change it slightly so it was named ‘differently’ and on it went again.
They’ll always play right on or just over the line to see when/how people push back. They knew what they were doing, they started at a 9 intentionally so that people push back to and live with a 7
MS really has always done this, what’s the name for this kind of marketing maneuver? Manufactured consent? Manufactured begrudging tolerance?
Door in the face
Like politics, were adding 200% to this inconvenience!
Then rolling back to “only” 50% (the initial target).
I mean… Yeah? That’s kind of the point isn’t it? Test the waters and figure out just how far they can push it? Find the limit of acceptance and ride that?
How do you “fix” the security issues of a program that is literally designed to spy on you?
I’ve just switched to Linux Mint and I’m not ever coming back. That’s how I “fixed it.”
Opt-in but you get an annoying full screen popup every boot, like for the windows11 upgrade. It’s only a matter of time, til they sell AI recall features as Win12 and then beg you to upgrade for free, pretty please!
Or “(totally unrelated feature) is not available unless you activate AI recall. Click here to activate.”
“Click cancel if you do not want to not activate it”
Trust is difficult to earn and easy to lose.
When did they earn it last time?
XP was made stable to counter Linux, it wasn’t something like trying to earn trust IMO.
deleted by creator
How did that earn them trust?? Making something that works?
security issues as in its very existence?
