• ironhydroxide@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    160
    arrow-down
    6
    ·
    24 days ago

    Yeah, make them out of metal, that rolls on metal roads. And those metal tires can carry a ton more weight, so put a lot of people in them who are going the same way.

    Oh right, we already have those.

    • slaacaa@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      31
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      24 days ago

      Noooo, you don’t get it, bro. Just one more lane, please. I promise, it will be better than last time. One more lane, that’s all we need. I’m begging you, please.

      I’m on my knees here. One more lane, just one more! This time it will be different, I swear. We won’t have traffic jams, I promise! Just one more lane and we’ll be free.

      Come on, man, think of the children. Just one more lane. I’m begging you. For the love of liberty, just one more lane!

    • fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      23 days ago

      Any economical ways to run farms on rail? A lot of the roads where I have lived were just built and paid for by famers to move equipment between pay dirt and make their way to town occasionally

    • uis@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      24 days ago

      Do we? Sounds too futuristic. Not as futuristic as linking these megacars together.

    • undefined@links.hackliberty.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      30
      ·
      edit-2
      24 days ago

      Though “those” are wildly inaccessible and/or unrealistic in parts of the world.

      Edit: I was trying to say “unrealistic to use for most people today,” I wasn’t trying to brush off public transportation as something we shouldn’t do at all

        • catloaf@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          24 days ago

          No, there are definitely physical and engineering issues, like massive rolling mountains and valleys, or island chains or deserts whose sand is unsuitable to durable railways.

          • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            10
            ·
            24 days ago

            You know that Switzerland, a country in the literal Alps, has one of the best train infrastructures on Earth?

            As the other comment said, of course there are fringe cases. There shouldn’t even be a city in Dubai, let alone trains getting there, but fortunately, most cities on earth are in accessible places because, well, otherwise why would thousands upon thousands of people go there.

          • n2burns@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            24 days ago

            Those are Edge Case. There will almost always be edge cases where we have engineering or physical constraints, but we have solutions for almost all individual trips.

  • manualoverride@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    69
    arrow-down
    14
    ·
    24 days ago

    What kind of backhanded EV misinformation bullshit is this?

    Electric, gas, petrol, hydrogen, diesel, cooking oil or vodka; what you put in your car to make it go makes no difference to the tires or the wear.

    • mox@lemmy.sdf.orgOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      80
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      24 days ago

      From the article:

      In an EV era, tires are becoming the greatest emitters of particulate matter

      The point being that electric drops tailpipe emissions to zero, making tires the next target for reducing emissions.

      • DarkThoughts@fedia.io
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        24
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        24 days ago

        That sentence and headline are completely wrong though. Tires already are one of the greatest emitters of particulate matter even with ICE cars in mind, because this is a general car issue and cannot really be directly resolved. An improvement would be less weight. If cars were smaller and consequently lighter, then they’d pollute less. But unfortunately we are still going the opposite direction and cars are still getting fatter and fatter, just like the people driving them.

        • mox@lemmy.sdf.orgOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          24 days ago

          That explanation is fair enough but the headline is red meat the the EV disinformation brigade.

          It’s funny how words affect people differently.

          Not long ago, I posted a short, precisely-stated comment mentioning an observed fact that I had verified with a relevant authority. When I later checked in, I was surprised to find someone accusing me of spreading misinformation, and my comment removed by a moderator. It was clear that my accuser had badly misinterpreted my words. He refused to admit it or accept clarification. (And the mod had already acted, rashly.)

          I re-checked what I had written about twenty times over the course of the day. There was nothing there to support the accusation. My best guess is that my phrasing or the subject matter might have touched on rough emotions from a bad experience, leading him to see what he expected to see instead of what I wrote, and triggering attack mode.

          Communicating well really is complicated. It takes work on both sides, and can quickly turn into a bad time if it goes off the rails.

          Because of this, I’ve been making an effort to read (and re-read) charitably, especially with people I don’t know well.

          • manualoverride@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            24 days ago

            That’s a terrible thing to say!

            …Only joking.

            I tried to buy an EV for my parents a couple of weeks ago and the dealer had the EV misinformation playbook memorised and tried to convince us that EVs were a fad and that should get a hybrid until Hydrogen takes over.

            I’ve decided that whenever I see these common myths, I’m not going to just let the misinformation go unquestioned.

            In this case I think specifically focusing on EVs will generate more clicks for article writers, but it does also feed a common anti-EV narrative that they are somehow worse than ICE cars because of tire wear, which is not true.

            I do see the other side that the tires being developed are specifically looking at EV owners, so this is a tough one to get the balance right on, but I do still think the headline is written to stir trouble and generate clicks.

            One thing is certain, America needs to stop buying so many trucks!

    • Jesus@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      ·
      24 days ago

      It’s dumb, but I think the author was trying to say, “we have an emissions solution for the motor, and now it’s worth exploring where else we need to address emissions for motor vehicles.”

    • Mihies@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      25
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      24 days ago

      It does. EVs are much heavier due to battery weight and have more power and torque. Which all results in more tire wear.

      • manualoverride@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        29
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        24 days ago

        2023 top 5 vehicles sold in USA and weight:

        1 - Ford F-150 4069-5697lbs

        2 - Chevrolet Silverado 4400-6947lbs

        3 - Ram pickup 4765-6440lbs

        4 - Toyota RAV4 3370lbs

        5 - Tesla Model Y 4416lbs

        Looks like the only electric on the list is below the average weight. We don’t have these conversations about the trucks.

        • Altima NEO@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          15
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          24 days ago

          Trucks are a whole other issue into themselves, though. Not just the tire wear, but their terrible fuel economy.

        • Rooskie91@discuss.online
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          20
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          24 days ago

          That’s a list of a bunch of trucks compared to a midsized SUV, so you’re kind of proving yourself wrong. Cars are split into weight classes, so a comparison that doesn’t acknowledge that isn’t very useful. A EV Sedan is on average much heavier than an ICE sedan.

          No one’s saying ICE vehicles are better for the environment than EVs

          • manualoverride@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            15
            arrow-down
            7
            ·
            24 days ago

            Those are the most sold vehicles in the US, when you have heavy EV’s in the top slots you can say that heavy ev’s are a problem… until then it’s what you are buying is causing the problem.

          • grue@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            23 days ago

            No one’s saying ICE vehicles are better for the environment than EVs

            I think it’s possible for a diesel vehicle running on 100% biodiesel made from waste oil to be. The problem there is that there isn’t enough of that sort of fuel to go around as long as cities keep getting designed to keep people car-dependent.

        • englislanguage@lemmy.sdf.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          24 days ago

          Wow, that’s an impressive list of amateur tanks. Do they also sell real cars in the US? (Rhetorical question)

      • rdyoung@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        24 days ago

        This is false. They aren’t really that much heavier, 1k lb or so. It’s not the weight that tears up tires it’s the instant and 100% torque when you hit the accelerator. If you go easy on the launches your tires will last longer.

      • Album@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        24 days ago

        Hey man, it’s got nothing to do with them being heavier, it IS about how that weight is distributed differently. You’ve mispoken and now everyone is latched on to something that isn’t true about something that is true.

        EV tires are made from different compounds then truck and car tires which causes them to wear ~20% faster.

        • EVs have instant torque delivery, which can put more strain on the tires during acceleration. Therefore, they need EV tires that can handle the increased force and extra weight.

        • Electric vehicles have heavy battery packs, affecting the overall weight distribution. This can impact tire wear, so EV tires are designed to carry and distribute the extra weight effectively.

        • EV tires are engineered to have lower rolling resistance. These tires reduce the energy required to move the vehicle, resulting in better range and longer battery life.

        • Most EVs use regenerative braking systems, which recover energy during braking. EV tires offer better traction and grip, enhancing the effectiveness of regenerative braking.

        • Electric vehicles are generally quieter than traditional ICE vehicles. To complement this characteristic, EV tires are built to reduce road noise and vibrations, providing a quieter and more comfortable ride

      • helenslunch@feddit.nl
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        24 days ago

        EVs are much heavier due to battery weight

        That’s not inherently true. It’s most true for grossly oversized and inefficient EVs. Which is unfortunately most of what they build today.

      • Rooskie91@discuss.online
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        24 days ago

        You’re getting down voted but you’re right. I don’t think people realize that most tires are now made from synthetic rubber, AKA plastic.

        Also someone tried to disprove you by posting a list with ICE trucks being as heavy as EV cars. Like what? Of course trucks are heavier. EV Trucks are even heavier than that and an EV subcompact will be much heavier than an ICE compact. Also everyone is talking about how trucks and SUVs are getting heavier and bigger. So not sure what they mean by “we never talk about this with trucks!”

        • manualoverride@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          24 days ago

          That is a list of the most sold vehicles in the US. Where are the people lining up to say the ICE trucks that are so popular are causing all this tire pollution?

        • uis@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          24 days ago

          but you’re right. I don’t think people realize that most tires are now made from synthetic rubber, AKA plastic.

          This is not what was said. Nobody said they aren’t.

          posting a list with ICE trucks being as heavy as EV cars

          Link? Here there is only list of most sold cars.

  • uis@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    51
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    24 days ago

    Now how about using iron tires on iron road? And using public transport?

    • LrdThndr@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      24 days ago

      Fuck yeah, public transit - Right in my veins, lets go.

      But for right now, there is ZERO public transit infrastructure where I live, which is only about 20-30 minutes to a medium-sized city’s downtown. And when I say ZERO, I mean ZERO. We don’t even have busses here. No trains. NOTHING. We don’t even have sidewalks on most roads - if you want to walk, you’re literally walking in the road. I used to ride a bike to work a long time ago - I can’t even count the number of times I’ve had shit thrown at me by shitbag rednecks as they zoomed past in their lifted pickup trucks.

      The local governments’ answer to all this is “If you don’t have a car, fuck you.” Cars are literally the only option. If you don’t have a car or a driver’s license, you better find somebody who does and give them gas money, or consign yourself to paying for Uber/Lyft anytime you want to go anywhere. It’s straight-up dangerous to travel any other way around here.

    • Silver Golden@lemmy.brendan.ie
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      24 days ago

      a fancy new startup will start calling them decentralised pods for personal transportation. Promise to be revolutionary.
      Preforms worse than all know forms of transport so far

      • uis@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        24 days ago

        Promise to be revolutionary.

        Revolution:

        Preforms worse than all know forms of transport so far

        Pretty low bar

    • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      24 days ago

      Although I agree that using cars on pointless journeys is a waste and not good for the planet, but using public transport isn’t always an option.

      If I’m travelling 6 miles in to town then I’m taking the tram, but it really isn’t feasible when travelling 40 miles to work and back 3 times a week. Sure there are trains, but I would have to get up an hour earlier, set off an hour earlier, wait 50 minutes for the train home, and get home two hours later. As I would also have to take the tram 40 minutes to the train station and walk 20 mins before that.

      I have a car that I use for work. Outside of that I’m walking or taking public transport.

      • uis@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        24 days ago

        wait 50 minutes for the train home

        Same was in Moscow until Moscow Central Ring was opened and people said “wait, so trains can arrive at 2 minutes interval? Why suburban trains doesn’t do same?”. And that is how D1-D4 were born with 5m peak hours interval instead of few hours of lunch break.

      • grue@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        23 days ago

        If I’m travelling 6 miles in to town then I’m taking the tram, but it really isn’t feasible when travelling 40 miles to work and back 3 times a week.

        “My city is fucking designed wrong so the public transport sucks” isn’t really the rebuttal you think it is. Obviously, the real problem there is your city is fucking designed wrong and the vast majority of people shouldn’t have to be living 40 miles away from work to begin with!

        • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          edit-2
          23 days ago

          I live in Manchester. Which is an amazing city for public transport. I work in Cheshire which isn’t.

          As I said. To take the train. I must walk from my town 20 minutes to the Metrolink, then take that 35-40 minutes into Manchester, then take the train 45 minutes to Cheshire, and then finally walk another 20 minutes to the office. That’s without counting any waiting periods in between. VS 75 minute drive.

          We haven’t even factored in it rains 70% of days here. Or even the cost.

          You can moan at my boss for not allowing fully WFH. But my point was some people can’t just commute everywhere. Perhaps when I’m more experienced I can find a job closer to home or more remote, but for now this is all I can do.

          Edit: I have nothing to rebut to people online. I was merely giving an example. Get off your high horse mate.

          • grue@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            23 days ago

            You can moan at my boss for not allowing fully WFH.

            IDGAF about your boss. If I were gonna moan about something, it’d be about the shitty state of British Rail or some other macro/policy issue, not anything specific to your situation.

            That said, I live in fucking Atlanta – the poster child of terrible American sprawl and traffic – and have figured out how to make cycling for most trips work. I have no doubt that you can do better. Get yourself a damn Brompton (so you can easily take it on the train) and turn that 40 minutes of walking + 35 minutes of Metrolink into however many minutes of biking, for example.

            I live in Manchester. Which is an amazing city for public transport. I work in Cheshire which isn’t. … Perhaps when I’m more experienced I can find a job closer to home or more remote, but for now this is all I can do.

            Nothing you could say will convince me that there isn’t even a single suitable job for you right now in Manchester. Or that there isn’t a single suitable residence for you right now in whichever town in Cheshire you work in, for that matter.

            • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              6
              ·
              23 days ago

              Why are you so angry bro, can’t we just talk without the anger.

              I clearly stated that Manchester has incredible public transport, sure the train prices could be improved as they’re some of the most expensive in Europe, but it isn’t a case of poor infrastructure. It’s just the nature of having to take multiple modes of transport to get to work. Do you want us to build train stations in every shitty little town? What are the implications of that undertaking for the very few people that have a commute like mine.

              Imma say if you live in the US then you’re in no position to lecture me about our infrastructure.

              As for the job. No there wasn’t a more suitable job for me. I’m a new software developer and I had 60+ interviews with many companies in Manchester and several in London and none of them would hire me, due to the unorthodox method I entered the trade.

              Also, no I will not relocate away from my family to spend three days in the office.

              You have unrealistic expectations on someone who is vastly in the minority with commutes like this.

              Do you shop on Amazon? As I don’t, I don’t support businesses like that. What’s the carbon footprint I’m saving here.

              Do you purchase from fast food places like McDonalds? Because I don’t. I don’t support businesses like.

              In fact I rarely buy new things and if I do I am supporting my local businesses, even if it means I am paying more.

              Do you consume alcohol and all the carbon footprint that that entails? As I don’t.

              I’m a simple guy. I drive to work and i rarely leave my home town outside of that. I walk everywhere, 3.6 million steps a year, and on weekends I walk around the woods and just chill out. My commute leaves me driving 12k miles a year and that’s my largest carbon footprint. I don’t go on airplanes, I don’t take taxis as I can go anywhere in Britain on train, heck I can go across Europe on train.

              • fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                23 days ago

                Hey you are doing your best and actually thinking of ways to be better. Don’t let critics keep you down. (Just throwing my support your way)

                • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  23 days ago

                  Thanks for taking the time, you really didn’t have to.

                  The other person just seems unreasonable to me. All we can do is our best and try to make conscientious choices and hope we leave this place better than before we got here.

              • grue@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                23 days ago

                You have unrealistic expectations on someone who is vastly in the minority with commutes like this.

                If you admit you’re vastly in the minority, then why did you feel the need to chime in in the first place? If you actually aren’t a reactionary concern troll, you need to realize that making the perfect the enemy of the good like that adds nothing to the conversation and only discourages people from embracing alternatives.

                And if I’m angry, by the way, it’s because the sort of shit you just did happens every single goddamn time and is THE major impediment to actually getting shit changed. It’s not some small-but-loud minority of coal-roller (or “Chelsea tractor” in your case, I guess) blatant right-wing assholes who are stopping improvements from happening; it’s all the allegedly-well-meaning moderates quibbling everything to death for not being perfect who are the real problem!

                • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  23 days ago

                  I’ll admit it was a reactionary comment as I see the sentiment a lot without any nuance and it kinda annoys me, considering I make conscientious choices all the time and people like you (maybe not you in this instance) will pass judgement and make me question myself.

                  It was also a little strange shitting on a places public transport infrastructure when my city likely has the second best in the whole of Britain, so it seemed like you’re coming from a place of ignorance rather than passion. Pretty easy to go online and check out the public transport in Manchester, and realise yeah they’ve got it good there. Although, the buses in smaller towns leave something to be desired.

      • stoy@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        23 days ago

        The coolest thing about electric trains is that for all normal usecases, they have an infinite fuel tank.

        • Aux@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          23 days ago

          Some parts of London. I used to live in a building next to three sets of railways: the tube, regular intercity and express/higher speed intercity. That’s a bit too much railway outside the window. And that’s not even the worst location, in the New Cross area some residential buildings are sandwiched between railways on all four sides.

          Don’t get me wrong, I love trains in London, so many trains means I don’t need a car, but London has the oldest railway infrastructure in the world and the way they were built in the 19th century makes some areas a total disaster today.

          On the other hand, riding a DLR train through a skyscraper is bloody epic!

  • Delta_V@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    20
    ·
    24 days ago

    So this big breakthrough in tire technology is . . . making them harder and reducing their grip?

    • cordlesslamp@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      24 days ago

      EV are much heavier than petrol cars, maybe the offset weight will help regain some grip? Normal tires wear out so fast on EVs.

      • Delta_V@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        18
        ·
        24 days ago

        That extra weight will also mean that more force is required to accelerate and change directions.

        The nimbleness of a vehicle can be expressed as the ratio:

        (Tire Contact Area * Tire Stickiness) / Vehicle Mass

        Increasing the vehicle’s mass while making the tires harder will lead to longer breaking distances and will cause a vehicle to understeer at lower speeds.

      • Viper_NZ@lemmy.nz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        23 days ago

        Much heavier than petrol cars if they’re not on a bespoke EV platform or designed poorly. Slightly heavier than petrol cars if they’re designed properly.

        Eg a Model 3 and a Toyota Camry are the same weight and almost identical dimensions.

        It’s weird to me the weight thing keeps coming up when discussing EVs but not the petrol cars which have been growing bigger and heavier for years.

      • helenslunch@feddit.nl
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        23 days ago

        maybe the offset weight will help regain some grip?

        …what? LOL The added weight also offsets the grip…

  • Victor@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    24 days ago

    And now to make lighter EVs that don’t wear on the road so much.

    • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      24 days ago

      And now to make lighter EVs that don’t wear on the road so much.

      Tesla Model 3 Long Range (as an example) weighs in at 4,034 lbs, while the Ford F150 is 4,391 to 5,863 lbs.

      Shouldn’t we start with the majority of ICE vehicles which already weigh the same or more than EVs?

        • andyburke@fedia.io
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          24 days ago

          The cars might be, but their weights are their weights and that is an apples to apples comparison in the context of

          And now to make lighter EVs that don’t wear on the road so much.

          • testfactor@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            24 days ago

            Why not just compare the model 3 to an 18-wheeler then? Those weigh way more. Would have made his point better.

            And it’s a completely meaningful comparison, as long as you throw away the fact that different vehicles are used for different things.

            • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              8
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              24 days ago

              Why not just compare the model 3 to an 18-wheeler then? Those weigh way more. Would have made his point better.

              And it’s a completely meaningful comparison, as long as you throw away the fact that different vehicles are used for different things.

              They’re designed for different things. While I’ll agree that the many F-150 drivers are using them for their appropriate grade of work or towing, I’m guessing there are more F-150s that are used as grocery-getting-pavement-princesses than all the Tesla Model 3s ever sold.

              In that way, F-150 is identical to Tesla Model 3 as far as use case.

        • Jolteon@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          24 days ago

          Alternatively, the model 3 is ~700 lb heavier than a Toyota Camery (which is actually a vehicle with the same use case as the Tesla)

        • MrEff@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          24 days ago

          Seriously. We are talking about tire tread compared to weight. Both use multiple sizes of tire depending on the year/model. There are a few that overlap in diameter to get the closest to comparison but they still have a very different width. We are talking about a 235/35R18 vs a 235/75R18. That is a huge difference in wall height/aspect ratio and changes how the tire gives under power. Those numbers massively change depending on model as well. Something like an f150 raptor could have a 315/70R17, almost a foot wide. So comparing just the weight and saying they are close enough is far from a fair comparison.

          • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            24 days ago

            A model 3 to an f150 is absolutely apples and oranges.

            Seriously. We are talking about tire tread compared to weight.

            Are we? I thought we were talking about tire particulate pollution. Why have I never heard the conversation raised that truck tire pollution is a problem? Why is it only EVs that its suddenly an issue?

      • Montagge@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        24 days ago

        Just because a Ford truck weighs a lot doesn’t mean we shouldn’t address EV tire wear.

        Do a lot of people own trucks that shouldn’t because they don’t use them as trucks? Yes. I’d argue that’s a completely different argument.

        This isn’t an EV only issue, but it is highlighted for EVs because they go through tires faster than equivalent sized (not weight) vehicles.

        In the end I would hope all vehicles would be equipped with tires that don’t kill aquatic life!

        • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          24 days ago

          Just because a Ford truck weighs a lot doesn’t mean we shouldn’t address EV tire wear.

          I agree. However, this started with a highlighting of EV tire pollution. Arguably mainstream EVs entered production in 2012. F-150 and other trucks of equal or more weight have been on the road since about the late 1970s. Why is it this is an EV tire pollution discussion only?

          Do a lot of people own trucks that shouldn’t because they don’t use them as trucks? Yes.

          We agree.

          I’d argue that’s a completely different argument.

          How so? Are you arguing that a truck that weighs the same the produces equal tire pollution is okay, but an EV that weighs the same with equal tire pollution isn’t okay?

          This isn’t an EV only issue, but it is highlighted for EVs because they go through tires faster than equivalent sized (not weight) vehicles.

          Isn’t this following the same flawed logic that trucks shouldn’t have to get high MPG efficiency because they are trucks, while ICE cars are held to higher efficiency standards? Your logic seems to suggest we could solve this EV tire pollution problem by simply eliminating EV cars and only driving EV trucks because then they’d get a pass on tire pollution like current ICE trucks do.

          In the end I would hope all vehicles would be equipped with tires that don’t kill aquatic life!

          I agree, but your other statements prior seem to give a pass to ICE (or EV trucks).

  • Takina's Old Pair™@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    11
    ·
    24 days ago

    Pls don’t make them soy-based or some human food based, rodents and other small critters with teeth will gnaw at them like what happens with engine hoses…

  • spyd3r@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    11
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    24 days ago

    Make tires out of ground up bureaucrats, they’re organic and biodegradable, and there’s an endless supply of them.

    • Aux@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      23 days ago

      First of all, biodegradable doesn’t mean what you think it means. For example, PLA plastic is biodegradable - good luck trying to compost it at home.

      Second, source material doesn’t mean that the end result will be biodegradable as well. You will need to polymerise them and you’ll end up with the same plastic and rubber as if you’d use oil. PLA is an example again! It’s made from lactic acid, which you can and do eat. You can also eat pure PLA, but again - it’s not compostable.

  • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    24 days ago

    It’s going to be all about the price.

    My hybrid recommends “eco” style tires to get the best gas mileage. Those were $100 more, per tire, than the standard low-profiles. At the time, I commuted about 110 miles/day, so tires typically only lasted me about a year before they were either officially worn out or too worn to be safe to drive in winter.

    I only noticed about a 1-2 MPG loss with the “standard” tires versus the “eco” ones that came with it. Over the course of a year, I doubt that 1-2 MPG added up to the $400 difference.

    So, these cleaner tires are a good thing, assuming they’re not more expensive than current-style tires. Depending on use-case, 35% longer life (if that holds true) may be able to tempt price-conscious buyers.

    All that said, I could definitely see these becoming the “factory” tires for new EVs, though.

    • Toes♀@ani.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      24 days ago

      Yeah, that closing point is likely gonna be screwed by economies of scale. You need more adoption for the price to fall and with the price high you won’t see that large adoption. So, I suspect we won’t see those prices until many more EVs are on the road.

    • Ebby@lemmy.ssba.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      24 days ago

      Price is definitely important, but so is traction. If stopping distance increases because eco materials grip less, that would be a concern.

      My criteria are performance results, wear rating, and price.

      • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        24 days ago

        I wouldn’t think stopping distance would be noticeably impacted by less rolling resistance. My original “eco” tires stopped the same as the standard ones. They’re “eco” because they have less rolling resistance and are slightly lighter.

        Plus, with ABS, you’re not likely to lock the wheels up such that the decreased resistance would be significant.

        On slick roads would be my only concern, but a good and season appropriate tread should mitigate that.

        • helenslunch@feddit.nl
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          24 days ago

          My original “eco” tires stopped the same as the standard ones.

          No they didn’t.

          They’re “eco” because they have less rolling resistance and are slightly lighter.

          They have less rolling resistance because they’re made of a harder compound, with reduced grip.

          Plus, with ABS, you’re not likely to lock the wheels up such that the decreased resistance would be significant.

          …huh? ABS has nothing to do with rolling resistance…

          • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            24 days ago

            No they didn’t.

            In a strictly technical / laboratory sense, maybe not. But in practice, they stopped just the same. I also slow down to a stop (regen braking is amazing) and don’t slam on my brakes at a stop light (like some drivers I routinely scowl at). And driving through the country and having to slam on the brakes when a deer jumps out (which was common where I lived), I noticed no appreciable difference in stopping distance between the two tire types.

            …huh? ABS has nothing to do with rolling resistance…

            ABS prevents the tires from locking up and skidding (anti-lock braking system, hence the name). Under normal driving conditions, it merely helps you maintain control, but on slick roads, locking up the wheels can skid you further than without it. So, no, ABS doesn’t directly relate to rolling resistance, but it’s part of a system along with the tires that contribute to stopping distance…which is what I was talking about.

            • helenslunch@feddit.nl
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              24 days ago

              In a strictly technical / laboratory sense, maybe not.

              In every sense they do not.

              I also…don’t slam on my brakes at a stop light

              How you drive under normal conditions has absolutely nothing to do with the capability of the tires in an emergency situation, which occurs regardless of how good or careful you are.

              I noticed no appreciable difference in stopping distance

              You won’t if you don’t get out and measure it. But I guarantee it is there regardless. The difference, regardless of how noticeable, can easily mean the difference between life and death, or even crashing at all.

        • Jrockwar@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          24 days ago

          In a car with ABS, two sets of tyres with different grip will have a different point at which tyres lock up, with grippier tires locking up later and ABS letting the brakes bite harder before acting.

          Now a harder question is whether a tyre with less rolling resistance will be less grippy. All things equal, yes, it will. Tyres grip by deforming and creating friction in the contact patch, and the point of these tyres is to reduce friction.

          To make up for this, manufacturers use clever designs (e.g. where tyres can deform more under certain conditions) so that they can retain characteristics similar to tyres with more rolling resistance. Of course, everything in engineering is a compromise, which means that A) these tyres are more expensive because of the additional complexity and B) the design and materials science can only go so far and they have indeed slightly less grip; otherwise all the tyres would be like this.

          As an anecdote, Toyota sold the GR86 with Michelin Energy Saver tyres fitted as standard (in Europe at least) for “grip” reasons: they allowed the car to drift at really low speeds (some car journalists commented that it was remarkably easy to take roundabouts sideways at legal speeds).

    • Pretzilla@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      24 days ago

      Please do the rest of the math and put a number on the actual comparison.

      28,600mi/yr (wow, BTW) - 110mi x 260 working days a year

      What were the actual mpg’s and costs for the eco and regular tires?

      And how heavy is your hybrid?

    • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      24 days ago

      It’s going to be all about the price.

      EV or not, price the pollution into the cost of buying the tire. Then the economics of a non-polluting tire would be the primary driver for adoption because they would be cheaper than polluting tires.